The words are irrelevant. 60% body language and voice tone. Fuck the storytelling techniques.

Last time I checked I didn't get a girls number just by standing up straight and using tonality in my voice.

You should be working on your social skills, building rapport, choosing your words.
As K said, story telling techniques is something you need to adopt, it will help socially.

Words and your choice of words can show many skills and characteristics from social skills to intelligence.

But hey if you face her and point your shoes in her direction maybe she'll realise you like her.


You have to be realistic about where you are in progression and how to improve. Learning techniques like story telling can only help you improve.

I'm a child taking my first steps in this game definitely. Sometimes I'm managing to toddle along for a few feet and feeling like I've cracked it, at other times I'm crashing down on my face and feeling like it's hopeless. That's the way it has to be at the moment. I'm prepared to accept that.

But at the same time If I get a full frontal attack on my character, I'll fight back. I'm not boring, I can converse very well in most situations, without being verbose.

I just find these skills deserting me sometimes at the crucial moment when I'm in the presence of an attractive woman.

Sometimes I find myself trying too hard with a woman. At least now I am noticing this loser behaviour and stopping doing it. That's why I chose this forum...to get help on this part of my life.

I do appreciate the advice I've got, even though it seems harsh at times. Sometimes I do need a kick up the arse.



I don't believe the studies either. That 60% study was quoted by a body language guru, no surprise there.

No, it's the whole package and it's the whole package I've always wanted to be. I'm listening to what you guys are saying and taking it on board.

A lot of your post was structured, thoughtful and insightful (and helpful). But some of it was presumptuous of what other people think of me when I'm talking to them.

What I mean is mind reading imaginary people (people you imagine me talking to) and concluding that what they perceive in my external behaviour (talking) which you constructed only from the information you got from the words in my posts (which you admitted you never read the whole of), always leads to the internal state of these imaginary people being boredom.

Sorry, but that's too big a jump and not reality. I thought we were about being present and experiencing things first hand, not making instant judgements about things or people?

I think all that is wrong is that I've made some long winded and self-indulgent posts instead of getting to the point and making it readable.

I can fix that.

Let's leave it at that.

nova, Barney Stinson and Kowalski - I read your comments again this morning with a calmer head on me.

So this is what I got that I need to work on:

1. succinct factual field reports - less words, no unnecessary detail.

2. display more confidence - don't use "hey let me explain why I stopped you.." or "can I have your number?" use something more like " hey, I stopped you because your cute/hot" or just "hi, your cute" and "I'll take your number / FB" or "we can chat some more later, give me your number /FB".

3. learn storytelling techniques to avoid boring people (I'll google this to read up on it).

I'm going to write 2 on a card and read it until it get's into my thick nut.

Have a great Saturday!

Serendipity
Well done. Some people when given positive criticism react as though they're been attacked. I was a quite defensive person, I had a blinded stubbornness for people giving me criticism. I learnt to bite the bullet.


Once you implement the ways you've been given to improve and you see the results, you'll be reaping the benefits. I've found socially I'm now much better at turning bad situations into good situations.

Thanks Barney Stinson

This post probably belongs in the psychology part of the forum but since we're on the discussion here I think it's worth posting it here now. Sorry it's a bit long but it's not simple to explain. When I realised this it helped me a lot.

I studied NLP for a while and this is how psychologists think the process your describing works...

Your mind is defending the belief system and model of reality that it's constructed over your lifetime from your experiences. This happens in the subconscious part of your brain so you are not aware of it.

Even a single event early in life, such as being told by someone that you are ugly, or being rejected by a girl you liked can be the basis for part of your model of reality. The brain works on the information it has available at the time no matter how small an amount of information it is. Then it makes this into a general rule in your model of how the world works.

As long as this model works for your survival (i.e. your still breathing) and is not changed by another experience it thinks this is a good strategy for your survival and sees no reason to change it. You really believe that it is you that you are defending and not just a model of reality.

But what is really happening when you think you are being 'attacked' is someone is just offering you an alternative model of reality...in this case a version of reality that's going to be more helpful in you getting the results you want.

Your mind will come up with an endless river of excuses why you're not getting the results (thoughts like 'I'm just unlucky' or 'I'm a shy person' or 'I just haven't met the right girl', blah blah) to support your old model, even though it clearly doesn't work for you in getting the result you want.

These thoughts and beliefs can become a self fulfilling prophecy, meaning you act in accordance with them (you act shy) and you don't get the results and it convinces your mind that the reason you don't get results is because you are a 'shy person'. You believe it's just the way you were made and there's nothing you can do about it. In other words you believe that 'some guys have it and I don't'. So you give up and get nothing.

Most people only seek to question the old model when they hit rock bottom (e.g. clinical depression or have a nervous breakdown). I think some people coming to this forum have reached near that point and have decided to take action. They are desperately looking for support to do it. You won't get it on the NHS. 'Doctor I can't seem to get a woman....nope!'.

When you follow the alternative model by taking certain actions and actually do start experiencing the results you want it convinces your mind very quickly that the old model can be discarded and replaced by the new one (self-discovery /self-growth).

The vicious cycle that usually happens to a lot of people (me included) is if you don't do the actions at all, or well enough, you don't get the results and this convinces your mind the old model was right and the new one is no good. So you stay stuck with not getting the results you want and all the frustration of that.

The shock treatment (being confronted with your flaws in a forceful way) is a way to at least shake your current belief system so that you will start to question whether it's serving you or not. After the discussion on this thread, I spent last night and this morning questioning mine and came to the conclusion my old model sucks. I'm getting better results with the new one. So onward and upwards.

Most self-help books and psychologists sum this process up as this: if you do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've got

I considered whether to post this or not as it's not really 'day game' but it's relevant to the journey so I will.

------------------------------------

Lunchtime today (Saturday) - went to town to get some things and grab a coffee.

hot chic at the car park pay 'n' display ticket machine. I was at the machine next to it.

She was all dolled up - ass-hugging skinny jeans, stylish wedge shoe-boots, hair all newly done, tapping franticly on her phone. Guessed she was meeting a guy for coffee date so I didn't approach (though I should have said something).

A few minutes after I had got seated in a coffee shop nearby she came in and sat at a table with a guy who was waiting there.

I finished my coffee and decided to get another one when I see a woman come in that I recognise. I've spoken to once or twice in the shop where she works.

I went up to get my second coffee and started chatting to her.

Me: "Hi, are you on your lunch break?"

Lady: "yes I like to get out of the shop at lunchtimes"

Me: "are you on your own?"

Lady: "yes"

Me: "join me, I'm sitting over there"

Her "okay"

I collect my coffee and go and sit down.

We had a convo for about the next 30 mins - starting with small talk then progressing onto deeper stuff, like what who will look after us when we are old and what's most important in life to keep motivated.

During this I noticed her wedding ring and she used 'we' a lot so I knew she wasn't available.

We left together and I walked her part way back to her work. She patted me on the arm and I did the same to her as we said goodbye.

-------------------------------------

Although there was no real pressure once I realised she was married and wasn't trying to build attraction or close, I did manage to take the lead, build rapport, comfort and hold a good convo.

It's a sign of my progress. Normally I wouldn't even have gone into a busy coffee shop on my own. I would have just made a coffee at home.

One last thing was I noticed as the girl and guy left just before us after their 'date' the hot chick definitely looked across at out table and made eye contact with me.

These are small things, I know, but it's making me see that there are lots of options out there.

And things can happen as long as I continue to be willing to venture out of my cave and be social.

Been a while since I posted anything on here. I must have been inspired recently by Dan's posts.

Went out for a walk on my lunchbreak from work. I wasn't intending to do any approaches. It's hard to switch to approaching straight from being at work. I noticed a hot blonde chick sitting on a bench eating her lunch. She was gorgeous and I almost sat down next to her but there were some builders sitting on a bench opposite and I got paranoid they would see / hear me open so I walked on.

A bit further on saw a brunette sitting on another bench on her own sipping a coffee and having a cigarette. I sat down on an adjacent bench which was quite close. I was drinking my coffee and smoking too. I noticed her looking across at me a few times.

It took me a few minutes to work up the courage to open. I thought she's going to finish her cigarette and leave in a moment so I opened with some smalltalk about the weather. She was receptive and we had a 5-10 minute convo. She was an American here on a 3 week winter break. She asked how I ended up in London and what I did. I was in my head thinking stuff like "she's just being friendly, she's not interested".

I'm not sure how interested I was. She was nice to talk to but I wasn't really feeling the attraction. She was decent enough looking. She said she had to go and left. I find the problem with being indirect is it doesn't seem to get me going and it just feels like a friendly convo. It's the contrast with night game I'm not used to. I think she was single and was kicking myself later that I didn't ask to meet her again during her stay.