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(#21)
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Default 05-10-2018, 10:35 PM

Hello again, So that means you "must" escalate on the first date? I'm watching some videos on yt, I think some of them are helpful. With the mentor, I don't know, I'm not a fan of this service. In this week I got 4 new contact on FB and will date one of them next week. I hope it will be more successful.
But what I don't understand, is with the friendship. Because as I said a lot of them don't contact again after first date, so the have a opinion after the first date if I'm interested in this women sexual?

Cheers Paul
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(#22)
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Stein's Avatar
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Default 08-10-2018, 06:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artigian View Post
Ok, so escalating online is nonsense in my opinion. The only objective when chatting online is to get the girl to go on a date with you. You don't need to compliment her and you don't have to make her feel anything for you. All that happens when you meet. That's when you have your chance to make her feel that you're worth it.
Erm, no. If you're looking for something where it's just having fun and possibly fucking on the first date it should at least be implicit in how you communicate beforehand.

Like a clear problem with how he's setting these up is exactly that, especially since he's doing this via facebook. There's like zero fun or flirtation to it. From a girl's point of view if someone's inviting you out for a drink saying:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulLU View Post
How are you?
In addition, are you coming back this weekend? Because I want to meet you for a drink in the city. For me it would be a pleasure to know you in person and more about you.
Cheers
That doesn't communicate "this is going to be luagh, I can be sexual around this dude and it's all good, there's a possiblity we might go back to his and bang". I mean a girl will assume it's a date but it comes across v serious and long termish. Like that could easily be a meet up as friends thing, hell it reads like an invitation for a job interview almost.

But wait, can't he just escalate and get this shit going in a sexual direction when they're out. Eh, maybe, but 2 major problems:

1. Incongruence. She wasn't expecting this to be a meet up have fun have sex kinda situation. So even if she likes you and is attracted to you, it feels kind of weird and inconsistent. For a girl to go home with you on a first date she has to be sure that you're not a weirdo, that you'll be cool about it and all that, and being inconsistent like that sets them back on their heels. It's exactly while guys who do canned game can get good short terms reactions but rarely actually get laid.

2. Logistics. If a girls showing up expecting to meet as friends or as a long term dating peck on the cheek situation she's not expecting to fuck. Which means she might not be in a logistical position to go home and fuck you. Maybe she's got work tomorrow, maybe shes meeting someone else later, hell I know girls who went on dates and it got sexual but didn't fuck because they hadn't shaved their legs. The logistics have work, and the best way to ensure that is for her to at least have the gist of what's up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Artigian View Post
Or you can get a mentor for about EUR3000 and they will fix this problem forever.
Also no. Problems like this are never fixed 100%, they are only mitigated. You're game will never be good enough to have 100% control over how all dates go. Anyone who tells you anything different is trying to sell you something. You want to blow 3000 euros on game, set it aside and use it as funds to go out a few nights a week and work on your game. Way more value in the long run.


“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.” - Emerson

Last edited by Stein; 08-10-2018 at 06:44 PM.
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(#23)
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Default 08-10-2018, 07:17 PM

Dear Stein,

Thank you very much.

But what is a good text to ask her out with sexual reason?

I don't know how you should write this in a indirect way.

Only idea would be, for example , Hello you like to come tomorrow evening to watch (movie) etc.

In addition, if you ask her out like me and the first date was good in your opinion, what would be your next step?

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(#24)
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Default 08-10-2018, 10:34 PM

Stein, your post has a lot of validity, but it is tailored to an experienced guy. If someone says they have never had a girlfriend or sex, I would not start with the expectation of getting laid on the first date. It took me half a year of dating until I finally had sex on the first date and even now it's far from guaranteed for me.

Obviously we have to come across as fun on the chat. But once she agrees to go on a date, I think it's best to shut down communication via chat and only talk about logistics there.

With regards to paying for mentoring, I would say one thing: whether you pay or not, it doesn't matter, but you do need a mentor. This is exactly what I didn't have when I was young and so I would end in the friendzone on every date I had because I had no clue what to do. And then I read tons of stuff and watched videos and started improving quickly. If you have someone to show you the ropes, things become much easier.
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(#25)
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Default 08-10-2018, 11:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulLU View Post
Dear Stein,

Thank you very much.

But what is a good text to ask her out with sexual reason?

I don't know how you should write this in a indirect way.

Only idea would be, for example, Hello you like to come tomorrow evening to watch (movie) etc.
Like there's not too much wrong with that specifically, like you can lead a little more but just asking is fine. You aren't getting laid going to the cinema either. Go to a bar. Just something like "We should grab a drink sometime. What you doing Friday?". Simple like that.

It's not about when specifically ask them, it's all the shit up till then. Like the stuff, you've written so formal and lacking like a feeling of spontaneousness.

I've kind of hesitated on explaining the specifics of the language you should use, because basically, I'd have to break down all the facets of how flirting works and that's a ridiculously long conversation that probably wouldn't be too helpful in practice anyway. Here are some basic ideas to bear in mind though.
  • You're setting up the frame of how the conversation goes most of the time. This means whatever vibe you give off, they'll generally give off back. If you're stiff and formal, you've established that it's a stiff formal interaction and they'll behave that way.
  • Girls are very rarely openly sexual with people they don't know well, way too much stigma and risk attached. So as a culture, we have a proxy, which is flirting. You rib each other back and forth, create inside jokes, say sexual shit with a joking element to it. Hell, I hope I don't have to explain what flirting is.
  • I really don't want to give specific examples on what to say, because frankly doing that won't work. This shit has to be your own, and it's something you have to work on developing, kind of like learning balance. But the main things to work on is lowering your filter. Quit trying to say anything you think will work and start saying shit you yourself find amusing.


Are you doing this all in English?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulLU View Post
In addition, if you ask her out like me and the first date was good in your opinion, what would be your next step?
Like to get laid on the first date or after?

What I do is this anyway. I'm always going multiple places on the first date. That's like an old PUA idea but I've always done it and it makes sense. You go more places it varies up the experience and you're also both comfortable with going to a bunch of different places, which makes going back to yours easier. If you want to pull back to yours ideally do this not far from your place. Be prepared to stay out late too.

As you're talking on the date set up something that gives a credible reason to go back to yours. Provided she actually likes you anything works, I always use cocktails or weed or we'll talk about a movie and go back to mine to chill and watch it or something like that. This just gives her a plausible, comfortable way to come back to yours without it being a sex thing. Like this is all implicitly understood but the slut-shaming is real.

So if the above doesn't go down for whatever reason you just invite them to yours the next time with the same reason or similar. If you've come across normal and they've had fun on the last one that generally works.

That's the long and short of what I do from a nuts and bolts perspective, and it's always worked well for me


“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.” - Emerson
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(#26)
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Default 08-10-2018, 11:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artigian View Post
Stein, your post has a lot of validity, but it is tailored to an experienced guy. If someone says they have never had a girlfriend or sex, I would not start with the expectation of getting laid on the first date. It took me half a year of dating until I finally had sex on the first date and even now it's far from guaranteed for me.
In what way does that contradict what I'm saying. Dating to get laid on the first date and dating with the general goal of getting laid don't look very different at all. Again, congruence. And there aren't different rules for advanced people and beginners, what works works and what doesn't doesn't. No offense, but you admit yourself you don't get laid consistently, so it isn't like what you're doing is working consistently.

It's like saying to a personal trainer "back squats are all well and good for advanced people, but I'm new. I can only squat 55kg and I've got skinny legs". You might, but if you want to get strong and big you should still be doing squats, not a zumba class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artigian View Post
Obviously we have to come across as fun on the chat. But once she agrees to go on a date, I think it's best to shut down communication via chat and only talk about logistics there.
You said on your last post that nothing mattered provided you get them out on a date. How doesnt that fit with "you have to be fun" all of a sudden? And why shut down communication? What's your logic here?


“As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.” - Emerson
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(#27)
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Junior Member
 
Default 09-10-2018, 07:23 AM

Hello Stein,
Yes I'm very often do it in English sometimes in German. It depends on the women.
Thank your for the advice again, sometime I think that I don't know how to flirt good. :/
I mean I had a lot of dates in the past but never something works, maybe because this women are not so sure what I want and then they don't have a reason to see me again. I want to change it now in the way that you explain maybe I have than more success
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(#28)
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Default 09-10-2018, 03:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stein View Post
So as a culture, we have a proxy, which is flirting. You rib each other back and forth, create inside jokes, say sexual shit with a joking element to it. Hell, I hope I don't have to explain what flirting is.
I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts but don't want to derail the thread...


Be desireless. Be awesome. Be gone
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(#29)
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Default 09-10-2018, 10:13 PM

Hello guys,
Today one woman I meet 2 weeks ago sent my a message. She don't believe in friendship between men and women. Furthermore for a realtionship I'm to young for her (she's 6 years older) and she would prefer a men with a higher level in career.
Okay, I accept this. But what I can't understand, I told her before we meet how old I'm (and know her age) Also I don't tell her so much about my career, only that I'm working in ... Industry. I also don't like everything about her, but for me she was interesting.
Is it know again the point that it was not clear for her, if I want a friendship or a relationship?

In addition, yes we can include the topic how to Flirt in this thread, because I think also I don't know so good because if I flirt good, something like this shouldn't happen.
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(#30)
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Default 10-10-2018, 01:37 PM

Guys, I'll just take myself off this discussion. I genuinely tried to help, but there are other people more qualified to comment on this. I actually need help myself. Nontheless, Paul I hope you can master this problem soon.
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