Hi Guys,

This may come as a surprise to you, but I'm a bit baffled by the concept of "Frame Control". Can you guys give me some hypothetical examples, within the context of picking up women?

Thanks

P.S: Will be back out gaming in a couple of months ...with some odd nights here and there

I too would like a better definition however, as I understand this, you have the following elements.
In the initial phase of the interaction, the control of the frame rests with whoever opens. When you open for instance, you immediately have frame control and very often you are trying to uphold the 90/10 rule in many cases. Depending on how you opened, you are setting the frame for the entire interaction. So for instance if you ask the time, you are setting a frame of you wanting something from them quickly. If you go over in chode mode and blurt out a canned opener designed to elicit a response, then you are setting a frame of you wanting to take value from the interaction as your intention was to elicit a response. So those negative examples would set a bad frame before you start. Going direct in day game for instance, you are setting a frame for a pick up and as you are coming out of the blue, this in practice can dominate her frame as she is not used to seeing this kind of social dominance displayed (see later def.)
I have not gone direct that many many times but whenever I have and delivered a compliment opener for instance, it shakes her frame as she is just not used to this happening in her reality.

The control of the frame after the opener can be taken away by any party at any point. Frame control is held by whoever is leading the interaction. Obviously for all intensive purposes, you should be doing most of the leading and escelating. For instance, you will be picking up on the clues she has left you in the interaction, to move the conversation to discussions on feelings etc... You are controlling the frame but that means you are also listening to what she has to say and if the conversation flows nicely, then she will play in to your frame... You can also set up an us vs them frame, or by using C&F you can set a frame where she is actually trying to pull you, or you can misintepret what she says in a sexual way and you can also make her qualify herself. These things will result in you having control of the frame however, I believe there is a meta frame model which I saw somewhere which would explain this better.

If for instance an AMOG or CB busts in to your set, they will have suddenly gained frame control. You can hijack the frame by interrupting/ tooling/ winning them over, or you could loose control of the frame.
This is where AMOG'ing and frame control tactics, such as absorbing a potential cb in to your frame would come in to play.

In another instance she starts yabbering on about some guy she fancies, she is in control of the frame at this point as she is leading the conversation and in this case, she is taking it down a route that you don't want to go down, so you cut off the thread and regain control of the frame by changing the subject.

You open a mixed set with an opinion opener and you have gained control of the frame over the set, as you are a new and interesting person to them. At any point someone could amog you in this set or one of the chicks can throw a shit test at you. Either of these things can happen, you can react to this, or you can take it in your stride and be non reactive and respond to the comment. This is whats called a weak frame and a strong frame (of mind). In a strong frame, the ST is expected and you laugh it off and maintain control of the frame. The person with a weak frame of mind is caught out by this and reacts hence loosing the control of the frame is a greater probability.

Frame dominance is as it suggests; dominance rather than mere control. For instance, a doctor, psychologist or priest is seen as an authority figure. I.e society dictates that they are respectable and should be seen as an authority figure. If you go in to the doctors you are stepping in to his frame and he is a perceived authority, hence he controls the frame of the interaction from the start beacuse you want to take value from him. As we know in human nature, it is our inbuilt mechanism to copy those who we perceive as more powerful than us and we do this in a number of ways such as mirroring BL, copying speech inflections and matching states of mind. This goes back to simple S+R value.
If for example a woman with a very weak frame of mind goes to see a male psychologist and shares her innermost feelings, the pyschologist is already set up as an authority figure and as women are submissive in nature to dominance (not every woman, every time but in this example) her weak frame can be be totally dominated. All the shrink would have to do in theory, is project sexual state and that would be matched by the woman as she will match his state of mind, if her frame is totally dominated. (credit Gun for the frame dominance theory). Hence the temptation is high in these fields and we we only have to look to the news to hear of cases of doctors and shrinks sleeping with female patients and catholic priests abusing people in their charge to see that this happens in practice.
The essence of GWM is dominating the frame and projecting sexual state although the means by which he proposes to dominate the frame involves psychological manipulation.

Another explaination of frames, is how you view the world. If in your reality, women are only interested in cars and money and they don't like sex, you will be projecting this in an interaction. If however you prize yourself, this will be projected and hence you have a weak and a strong frame (of mind) respectively.

Frame control is really about leading an interaction more than anything and controlling the conversation. If for instance I blurt out routine after routine, I still have frame control but only for as long as I am entertaining them and am not interrupted. Some people have an inert social dominance, you notice this when many people copy them, they have a strong frame and it is easy for them to suck people in to their frame hence; naturals will often control the frame of a group interaction and have more perceived value.
So there are many different ways of frame control but some are not as useful as others.

??


I'm just trying to understand the concept. There's a whole myriad of things which will help you in your life. This is just a little thing. Pulling women -irrelevant.

Mark imagine it this way, Frame is another word someones Reality Tunnel.

An example, the frame of you are of higher value than that of the person your hitting on. The frame is tested with shit tests. If you fuck up your reality tunnel isnt a strong as hers.

Oh and marked1, copy pasta?

No, the examples are from my experience and the frame dominance is off way of the gun AUDIO course, which I acknowledged in my post. I also threw in a few terms I have heard lately as my understanding of them is increasing. The value concept in particular, if I go to an interaction and try to take value, it don't work... this is a major revelation to me of where I have always been going wrong. I made it plain from the outset that this is how "I" understand it but having re read my post I admit I sound like a pseudo psychologist KJ from MASF at times. I have read two Steven Hawkings books, Michio Kaku's physics of the impossible and started on Dancing with the Wu Li Masters (another book on quantum theory) in the last few days, so I'm a bit anal on concise definitions at the mo!

It is useful to study frame control for a basic concept of understanding things on an internal level. I'm genuinely interested in psychology and Eric Bernes work about how the ego state influences responses.
In all fairness this is not going to help, if your in your head thinking about who controls the frame the whole time when your out in a bar... (this is what I did though a few times lol?!).

So in summation of the post:
I initially came from the "child" ego state as I felt the need to defend myself
I then came from a rational "adult" ego state as I acknowledged that I was wrapped up in technical details.
I then came from a "parental" ego state by telling you this is not gonna help you in the field.

Why am I so involved in this? Because I want to be able to stop myself coming from a child ego state (reacting) at times I am criticised or when I get rejected.
I want to avoid the parental ego state, where I feel the need to tell someone "you should do this, that or you're wrong, I'm right" when its geared to controlling the frame or subconciously stating authority. This is an annoying habbit to others, I have recently picked up on this and I'm working on eradicating it from myself. As a result of looking at how people subconciously frame control, it won't surprise you to know that this parental ego state often comes in the guise of similar "put down" responses my parents would give. I can see that my motivation for saying things sometimes, is unconciously geared to elicit a feeling of importance which is an indirect method of frame control. Its all from a place of ego.

Responding like an adult when challenged or when explaining something is a major key to having a higher value frame that I do not posess. Maybe others can find this analysis of themselves useful but yet again, I seem to be finding out why I am the way I am although, what I really want to find out is how to move forward from here.

Rudy:
Good tribute to the great sages (Tim Leary and RAW). Reality tunnel is a good analogy. Anyway, off to make some more porn videos, so adeous...