Fear not. I'll try to be as laconic as possible with any future FR's

cheers

2-set - 2 hot blonde teenagers
Me: Hey, how's your night going? (stein opener)
Her: Fine
Me: My nights going good. Out catching up with some old school-friends.... (statement based on her answer)
Her: *nods*
me: I just noticed you from ever there and thought you looked cute. and wanted to say hi. You look Swedish
Her: No, i'm from here
Me: I was in Sweden last month, and everyone looks a bit like you. (statement/story)
Her: *politely smiles*
Me: So what are you guys up too later? (trying to involve the friend, but she is just staring at her friend, eye-coding her, lol)
Her: Not sure
Me: We're going to X-bar -
Me: you ever go there?
Her: Sometimes
Me: We go there for the cheap cocktails
Me: What's your name, anyway?
Her: Sophie
Me: I used to have a hamster called Sophie
Her: haha
Me: I'm gonna try to guess how old you are
Her: OK
Me: (I look her up and down like i'm studying her) 23?
Her: 18
Me: Shit, you're just a baby. What time's you bed time?
Her: haha
Me: What are you drinking there?
Her: Vodka
Me: (I go into a short story about being in Vegas for a friends stag doo and getting way drunk on vodka and about how I hate it now)
Her: (kind of starring at her glass waiting for me to leave! lol)

*At this point the target simply seems to be simply 'tolerating' me - And her friend has just been looking at the target the whole time. Could be shy. Could just hate me

Not sure what to say. What to talk about, now.

I completely go into my head as the atmosphere is now super awkward. You can literally feel it. I 100% lose any form of 'frame' here and am bordeline wanting to apologise to them for approaching them/bothering them! lol

Me: Sooooo...........yeah. OK, then. I'm just gonna.......go now. Errrr.....bye!!

And I scuttle off with my tail between my legs!

There was another 'better' interaction shortly after, but the girl was from Prague. Foreign girls just seem 10x more talkative than Brit girls. Especially YOUNG brit girls.

Trying to muster up the motivation to start the journal up again!

A year plus has gone.

I have managed to get a few more cold approach lays, but to be honest, very little has changed. (one of the girls was a 17 year old BEAUTY though which has kind of made it al worth it lol despite all the painful rejections 95% of the time)

I feel like them lays came as a result of them particular girls (maybe 3% of the girls I approached) finding me physically attractive, and from there either it's impossible to mess up if a girl thinks you're hot, or maybe my 'game' once i'm properly in an interaction with an attracted girl is decent. Not sure. One of the two.

A fairly rough few weeks where i've been getting shot down at the open every time (or shortly after and trying to engage uninterested girls) whilst my handsome wing as literally rejecting hot girls down who approach HIM has got me wanted to start journaling again, if only for cathartic reasons!

But sticking points are probably exactly the same. Inabililty to 'hook' basically. Often feel like I need some sort of 'material' but the only stuff I find online are the cheesy coldreads ''You look like you do something interesting. Are you in fashion?'' which I feel as especially cringey during night game, or like cheesy mysterymethod palm reading/long opinion openers (I actually tried these a bit and girls just found it odd that I was aksing them this stuff like 'who lies more, men or women?' etc and didn't 'play along' like maybe US girls would) etc

So I mainly stick with 'normal convo' as was kind of advised but then when I get rejected people tell me it's because I 'didn't run game' and then i'm back looking at palm reading routines etc! lol

Scrap all that fake shit you were doing and check out Matt Artisan from a channel called The Attractive Man.

I found him recently and his stuff is quite good. No gimmicky, cheesy BS.

There's another dude called Austen Summers too that I've watched a bit of. He also seems pretty decent.

Their styles of pick-up are refreshing when compared to most of the original or common shit.

Even RSD has popped it's head up again after 3+ years in hiding after all that lets-kill-Julien malarkey.

Figured I'd address this since I just saw it, since you're calling it the "stein opener" and since it gives me something on here to do besides dogpiling autists.

A big point of opening with something like that is that it basically sucks by most pickup standards. It doesn't have to strictly be that exact wording, but that's pretty much the way I'd speak to a friend if I bumped into them on a night out. It also gives you basically nothing to work with. No interesting hooks, no dumb, "I like salad" shit. Nothing at all.

People obsess over openers all the goddamn time, when really if you carry yourself right the content of the first thing you say doesn't matter at all. Chemistry and attraction don't have anything do to with the content of your opening line. If you're comfortable in your own skin and can carry a conversation you'll be fine regardless. The point is, lower the bar for starting a conversation to the absolute minimum you can. You can say something boring and still open fine, so focus on the other shit and stop worrying about it.

Or you can dress up like a retard and drive around in a rape van. Much love to jlaix.

Hey! Yeah, that's a very old post lol. I've not been here in ages.

Yeah, I certainly stress less over the actual open nowadays and often do use something like 'the stein' opener
But as you say, it's everything after that where it can get rocky for me! Usually either insta rejected/backturned or I just start talking and I find it impossible to 'hook' her to the point she's not trying to get me to leave through her one-word answers and negative body language etc lol. Sometimes I WILL say some PUA gamey line/statement etc that comes to my head and sometimes it actually DOES work. Certainly better than anything that I seem to be able to come up with, at least at THAT early stage of teh interaction.

Like you, i'm not a fan of all these weird mystery routines etc, so I just try to be normal but despite my best efforts I guess I don't spike their emotions enough or something.

Then eventually someone online tells me i'm not hooking because i'm not 'running actual game' and directs me to loads of mysterymethod routines (which I hate using as they make me cringe!!) and I go around in circles lol.

As I said, I did get a few cold approach lays since I stopped posting here, but I'm quite aware that i'm only marginally 'better' at this stuff than I was like 2 years ago. My 'mid game' has improved a little and i'm better at escalation and leading and showing intent and guiding the convo a certain way, but that is only obviously possible on girls who I can properly 'HOOK' (and who's to say that them girls who hook are simply girls who were just 'into me'/my particular look and so of course the rest of the set went smoothly)

I'm in a bad head space at the moment tbh after going out with a very good looking friend of mine last weekend (bad idea!!?) where he could have banged any girl in the club and had girls approaching him and trying to kiss him without him saying a word due soley on his good looks which has me questioning the whole game vs looks debate!

Kind of feel like I let people down who tried to help me, but I honestly did try!

(for what it's worth I went too America for a few weeks and 'hooked' like 90% of the time. It's either the accent or the fact that US people are like 50x more sociaable and friendly with strangers than UK people I assume). it's why lots of PUA advice is questionable to me, since it's always aimed at Americans. I had a friend who used to do the mysterymethod stuff in a big way and he'd be juggling and doing magic and telling DHV stories about his model ex girlfriend etc, and he didn't even get a kiss in like 3 years lol. You coulod say it was his delivery, whereas i'd argue that sort of thing is just too weird and 'try-hard' for UK girls whereas US girls maybe like it

What are the typical contexts where you're going up to girls? What are the general things you look out for before deciding to go up?

Also, can you define what hooking means? I know Ed very one has a general sense of what that means, but try to define it as specifically as you can

Mainly in bars and pubs. Usually just girls standing around or maybe sitting down at a table in a bar etc. Occasional dancefloor approaches too.
I'm usually out with 3 or 4 friends. Sometimes I open on my own, sometimes with a wing. Sometimes lone girls and sometimes 2-3 sets.

I don't look for signals or approach invitations usually if that's what you mean - mainly because I don't get them. I mean, I do notice girls starring at certain friends etc so I don't think i'm blind to them, but I don't get them so I tend to just 'go in cold'. If she's hot and I don't pussy out, I go in. Typically girls a fair bit younger than me to be honest. They are just always the hottest girls plus i've noticed over the years that a '5' can be just as rude as a '9', so why not!

By 'hooking', I personally mean once i'm past that stage where I can tell from her body language and the way she is talking (or not talking! ) that she'd be happier if I wasn't trying to talk to her. She's now asking me questions and giving me more than just one word answers (at best). She no longer has that kind of look of contempt and is now engaged and comfortable. I can just feel it.

Here's something to think about

If a girl is into you she has ways of making that clear. It's hard to explain, but if you don't know what that looks like, you just need to go out more until your social acuity gets better. The longer you do it the easier it gets. But let's just assume that it's totally cold, you have no idea, and you want to go up and talk to girls.

Start off non-commital when you're talking to random ass girls. What I mean by that is that you're fine to have a 10-second conversation or a 2 hour one depending on how it goes. There's no pre-established chemistry here, you're just having fun and not trying to make something "work".

There's no real reason to try to make every conversation "hook" or work. First off, because there's always a bunch more people to talk to. Second (and I never understood why people in PUA don't get this one), if you go up and talk to people on a night out and you don't come off all weird, you can speak to them more than once. Holy shit, who'd believe that.

Like you wrote out this really stretched out conversation you had above with 2 blonde girls. Don't get me wrong, you should absolutely stick around if it's a real conversation and things are going alright, but it reads like you feel the need to just hang out there even if the vibe is off. If it feels awkward, you aren't gonna force it out of being awkward through sheer willpower just by standing there. If it feels weird like that, you can just as easily go:

Me: Hey, how's your night going?
Her: Fine
Me: Cool, what are your guys names?
Her: Sophie, and Matilda
Me: Nice meeting you, I'm Alex. Anyways, I'm gonna go grab a drink, see you around yeah?

Then if you bump into them later you can just speak to them again if you want to, like "Hey we spoke before right? Sophie?" and if it's more receptive the next time (which happens a lot) you can go from there. If not, whatever.

I've never understood why most PUA people don't do that. You're way more likely to get laid going up to a few groups in a normal, fun way a few times then hanging around with one group till closing than you are doing this rapid-fire super commital "approach 15 people in a row and god I hope they like me" stuff. Learn to relax and take your time, because you've always got time. Don't be one of these awkwardly nervous types hanging around the club like they've got one stuck in the chamber who can't relax unless they're talking with a girl who's into them.

There's a bunch more I could write here because "hooking" basically seems to mean making someone reliably want to have a conversation with you after the conversation has already started. There are way too many variables. So simple rule of thumb is, approach like it's not a big deal, don't try and force it, and remember you can always go talk to them again if you don't come off awkward.

Yeah, I think i've got a decent idea of when a girl is into me. I don't think I have an issue with that. Maybe it's more that I can feel that most girls I approach AREN'T into me but I feel unless I try to 'turn' her and keep the convo going and try to 'attract' her, then i'm not really 'gaming' and i'm simply running 'numbers game' and waiting to find a girl who thinks i'm handsome lol.

Had a funny few weeks.

Last week I nearly banged a girl on a pebble beach in Brighton who I met in a bar

She was only 19. Pretty but not as thin as i'd like. 5.5-6/10

Had lots of attraction but I was out in a different town making the logistics a nightmare as she lived out of town aswell so my only shot was a bang on the beach, but it's not all sand beaches like in the US here! haha. Pebbles cockblocked me a bit and then her friends found us fondling on the beach and dragged her away as they were all getting a train back too a different town (opposite direction to my town)

This weekend I went too a different town again (Eastbourne) and ended up again getting super close to the lay after inviting some girls back to my friends (who I was visting) place , but I got a bit cock blocked by her friend who wanted to go home and get a cab with my girl
Sucked because this would have been a good one!

24 and looked a bit like Kylie Jenner! 7.5/10

We made out back at my friends in isolation in the hallway and I pulled her into my friends lounge and I was rubbing her pussy on the sofa and stuff and stuff but just as it was getting good her friend kept coming in and was like ''I've called a cab for us''.

I tried to convince her to stay. No dice. Tried to get her to invite me with her but she lived with her parents and it wasn't gonna happen.


If only my friend was interested in her friend, i'm confident i'd have been able to get the lay.

My best set of the night, although it was another set that I didn't open so it always feels like less of an achievement. My 'good sets' always seem to be ones that I don't open lol

It's clear that my general game is better than most of my friends though so maybe i've learn 'something' in these last 2 years of non stop reading and field experience!. If i'm able to get past the open (or if my friend opens well and then I join in) I appear to be able to do well.

My friend opened the set whilst I was at the bar and I saw he'd been in set for a few mins so it must be going OK.

I walked over and said ''Are you guys being nice to my friend?'' They were like ''we're always nice'' and I said ''Yeah, I can tell. You seem nice and friendly....except you. You look like bad news!'' (pointing at the hottest one). They All giggled and within a few mins i'm flirting with the 2 hottest ones and my friend is kind of stalling with the 2 less attractive ones.

Made a slight fuck up as I basically hit on both of the hot ones (a blonde and the kylie jenner dark haired one) so I think I made it a bit harder for myself with Kylie Jenner (she called me a player later on in isolation actually) and was like ''I saw you hitting on my friend. You just want to get laid and you don't care who with as now you're hitting on me!'' but I held frame and made it playful and I said ''Shhhhh.....(whilst cuddling her and putting my finger on her lips)...you're confused and you're aroused. You don't know what you're saying'' and she cracked up laughing.

She tried to protest again and I said ''This is all just a dream anyway. It doesn't matter'' and she laughed again and I pulled her towards me super close on the emotional spike.

Gave me a shit test about being short and I rolled with the punches and smiled. Told her I wear high heels for men and asked her why she likes short guys so much. Seemed to work.

Qualified her a bit with the usual bollox about me liking her personality (I always say this although it was actually true in this case. She was had a good sense of humour) and then invited her back which is when the aforementioned fondling took place. She even stuck a finger in my butt!! That was a new one for me!! Really wish I was clever enough to try to move her into a bedroom with a lock on the door! I'm an idiot.

Other points of note were some nasty rejections and some very stifled interactions before I felt 'loose'.
I had one interaction which was supposed to be a warmup set on 2 very average looking girls where I completely messed up lol; I opened a 2-set with a comment about how I was ''sobering up'' as i'd been waiting for my drink for so long too a 2-set who were also at the bar. They laughed.
I asked one what she was drinking. She told me and I said ''You can tell a lot about a girl by her drink''.
She said ''Oh yeah? What do I do then??''
At this point I just felt zero 'game' in my bones, very 'in my head' and I guessed her job. She said ''nope. I'm a hairdresser''.
Now, this is where for some reason my mind just went blank.
I guess I was trying to think of something ''good' to say. Couldn't. Then I thought about asking a regular question about her being a hairdresser but decided this would bore her and then found myself saying nothing at all and then they both just turned away and talked among themselves lol. I just needed to fukking talk!!! Anything would have been better than nothing! grrr....I'm an idiot. Like, I this wasn't even one of those 'bad sets' where I feel i'm talking too a brick wall. These girls were receptive lol

Also a few instant rejections. Some in the bar, and some on the dancefloor. Don't think I made any glaring mistakes in terms of body language etc. Somewhat happy to see my friends get lots of the same reactions. I'd love to know how common this is! Maybe I need to try to find more wings (who aren't super handsome) to see if this is just the way it is here!!
(i.e - If you aren't her physical preference, she'll more or less ignore you no matter what)

However, will concentrate on the positives. I appear to be able todo OK i'm not feeling too stifled (like I was with the hairdresser which was my 1st set of the night) OR if maybe my friend opens a set. I just suck as opening i guess. But I find it super interesting how most of my friends (such as the guy who appears to be able to open sets well) don't seem to be able to lead the set anywhere even when it opens well. They can't make it 'fun/flirty' etc which I guess is what 'game' largely is and something I must have improved on.